Head to head
Attention Schema Theory vs Orch OR
Attention Schema Theory and Penrose-Hameroff’s Orchestrated Objective Reduction, compared field by field from their entries in the Atlas.
At a glance
- Attention Schema Theory belongs to the Materialism family in Kuhn's Landscape of Consciousness, Orch OR to Quantum & Dimensions.
- Both treat consciousness as emergent.
- They give the same kind of answer on mind uploading.
- On AI consciousness, Attention Schema Theory says “Likely” and Orch OR says “No”.
- On life after death, Attention Schema Theory says “No” and Orch OR says “Possible”.
- On meaning and purpose, Attention Schema Theory says “Humanistic only” and Orch OR says “Cosmic/Ultimate”.
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Quantum & Dimensions
Penrose-Hameroff’s Orchestrated Objective Reduction
Roger Penrose, Stuart Hameroff
The claim
In brief
Attention Schema TheoryThis theory posits that consciousness arises when the brain constructs a quick, simplified, internal model—an attention schema—of its own process of attention. The brain mistakenly interprets and reports this internal representation as a subjective, non-physical essence or a 'self-caricature,' even though it is fundamentally a computational product.
Orch ORThis theory posits that consciousness arises from non-computational, gravitation-mediated objective reduction (OR) of quantum superpositions occurring within the protein structures (microtubules) inside brain neurons. This process, termed Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR), bridges the gap between quantum mechanics and classical reality to produce phenomenal experience.
What consciousness is
Attention Schema TheoryConsciousness is identified as the brain’s internal representation or simplified model of its own mechanism of attention (the attention schema), which is a specific example of higher-order thought.
Orch ORConsciousness is identified as a non-computational physical process—the specific orchestration of gravitation-mediated objective reduction of quantum states linked to the fine-scale structure of spacetime geometry. Proto-conscious moments are fundamental and ubiquitous in the universe.
Big questions
Can AI be conscious?Differ
Attention Schema TheoryLikelySince consciousness is defined as a computational process (the creation of an attention schema), in principle, artificial systems that implement the necessary computational architecture could become conscious. Furthermore, observers will inevitably make the social attribution of consciousness to sufficiently complex AI systems that act like they are conscious.
Orch ORNoConsciousness is fundamentally non-computational and relies on specific biological quantum processes (Orch OR in microtubules); digital simulation cannot replicate true sentience.
Attention Schema TheoryNoAs a Materialist/Neurobiological theory, consciousness is tied to the physical substrate (the biological, information-processing machine), precluding survival beyond the decay of the body.
Orch ORPossibleAs a non-local quantum process in spacetime geometry, consciousness provides a potentially plausible mechanism for phenomena like near-death experiences, the afterlife, and reincarnation.
Could a mind be uploaded?Both agree
Attention Schema TheoryPossibleIf the consciousness is realized as a computational structure (the attention schema), and if this structure and the relevant information processing systems can be accurately uploaded to a non-biological medium, virtual immortality is theoretically possible.
Orch ORConditionalMind uploading requires recreating consciousness in an artificial medium (e.g., carbon nanotubes) that possesses the necessary quantum physical properties to sustain and orchestrate objective reduction events.
Attention Schema TheoryHumanistic onlyConsciousness provides an adaptive, evolutionary purpose (monitoring and regulating attention for action control), but does not imply any ultimate or cosmic meaning, consistent with Materialism.
Orch ORCosmic/UltimateProto-conscious moments are fundamental and ubiquitous, linking consciousness to the fine-scale structure of reality, suggesting inherent cosmic relevance and possibly enabling evolution itself.
Nature of mind
Ontology
Attention Schema TheoryPhysicalism
Orch ORQuantum Theory (Non-computational Physicalism / Proto-panpsychism)
Mind and body
Attention Schema TheoryConsciousness is the report generated by a biological, information processing machine (the brain) through the assessment of its internal data, meaning mental states are computational and wholly physical.
Orch ORConsciousness is non-computational physics. The brain's microtubules act as a mechanism to orchestrate proto-conscious quantum activity into coherent, rich conscious experiences, requiring a physics beyond current understanding.
Fundamental or emergent
Attention Schema TheoryEmergent
Orch OREmergent/Primitive (Hybrid)
Qualia
Attention Schema TheoryConsciousness is described as a 'self-caricature' or an illusory report of a non-physical essence, suggesting a deflationary or illusionist account of qualia, akin to Daniel Dennett’s view.
Orch ORRich conscious experience (qualia) arises when orchestrated objective reduction occurs in neuronal microtubules, connecting the quantum information processing to the fundamental structure of spacetime geometry.
How it works
Mechanism
Attention Schema TheoryThe construction and maintenance of a simplified internal model (the attention schema) of the process of attention, rooted in principles from control engineering.
Orch OROrchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR), where non-computational, instantaneous quantum state collapse is leveraged by coherent quantum activity sustained within microtubule lattices.
Where it is
Attention Schema TheoryLocated within the biological, information-processing system of the brain.
Orch ORLocalized within neuronal microtubules, particularly in the brain, but fundamentally drawing upon ubiquitous proto-conscious properties throughout the universe.
What it does
Attention Schema TheoryThe functional role of the attention schema is to monitor and regulate the brain's attention in order to control actions in the world. The resulting capacity allows the system to claim consciousness.
Orch ORConsciousness provides real-time conscious causal action through non-computable objective reduction events, potentially linked to the fundamental mechanisms of free will and choice.
Evidence and criticism
Testability
Attention Schema TheoryEmpirically testable
Orch ORTheoretically testable; versions involving collapse dynamics can, in principle, be tested with quantum computers, though current tests are rudimentary.
Tests so far
Attention Schema TheoryNot stated
Orch ORStudies showing that general anesthetics, psychedelics, and antidepressants interact with microtubules.,Experiments aimed at testing quantum coherence maintenance in biological systems (e.g., tubulin studies).,Testing theoretical versions by combining IIT and collapse dynamics.
Criticisms
Attention Schema TheoryThe theory explains how a system can *claim* consciousness but faces the general limitation, shared by similar functionalist models, of conclusively proving or explaining the actual subjective feel (the 'anybody home' problem) which remains eternally uncertain, even by the proponent's admission.
Orch ORThe main tension is the challenge of maintaining quantum coherence for biological timescales in the hot, wet environment of the brain (environmental decoherence). The theory also requires non-existent physics (quantum gravity).
Sources
Key sources
Attention Schema Theory
- True nature of consciousness: solving the biggest mystery of your mind, M. Graziano (2019)
- Rethinking Consciousness: A Scientific Theory of Subjective Experience, M. Graziano (2019)
- Can consciousness be non-biological?, M. Graziano (2014)
Orch OR
- Shadows of the Mind: A Search for the Missing Science of Consciousness, Roger Penrose (1996)
- Conscious., Microtub. ‘Orch OR’, Stuart Hameroff (2014)
- Consciousness & new physics, Roger Penrose (2023)