Head to head
Recurrent Processing Theory vs Orch OR
Lamme's Recurrent Processing Theory and Penrose-Hameroff’s Orchestrated Objective Reduction, compared field by field from their entries in the Atlas.
At a glance
- Recurrent Processing Theory belongs to the Materialism family in Kuhn's Landscape of Consciousness, Orch OR to Quantum & Dimensions.
- Both treat consciousness as emergent.
- On AI consciousness, Recurrent Processing Theory says “Likely” and Orch OR says “No”.
- On life after death, Recurrent Processing Theory says “No” and Orch OR says “Possible”.
- On mind uploading, Recurrent Processing Theory says “Yes” and Orch OR says “Conditional”.
- On meaning and purpose, Recurrent Processing Theory says “Humanistic only” and Orch OR says “Cosmic/Ultimate”.
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Quantum & Dimensions
Penrose-Hameroff’s Orchestrated Objective Reduction
Roger Penrose, Stuart Hameroff
The claim
In brief
Recurrent Processing TheoryLamme's Recurrent Processing Theory (RPT) posits that consciousness is both necessary and sufficient when reciprocal (recurrent) feedback connections occur among neural areas, particularly in sensory systems. This processing, which happens locally in sensory and post-sensory areas (Stage 3), generates phenomenal experience without requiring global broadcast access.
Orch ORThis theory posits that consciousness arises from non-computational, gravitation-mediated objective reduction (OR) of quantum superpositions occurring within the protein structures (microtubules) inside brain neurons. This process, termed Orchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR), bridges the gap between quantum mechanics and classical reality to produce phenomenal experience.
What consciousness is
Recurrent Processing TheoryConsciousness is identified as a specific recurrent processing state holding within relevant neural circuitry, such as the visual system.
Orch ORConsciousness is identified as a non-computational physical process—the specific orchestration of gravitation-mediated objective reduction of quantum states linked to the fine-scale structure of spacetime geometry. Proto-conscious moments are fundamental and ubiquitous in the universe.
Big questions
Can AI be conscious?Differ
Recurrent Processing TheoryLikelyAs a Materialism Theory, AI consciousness must, in principle, be possible if the requisite pattern of recurrent processing could be artificially duplicated in a non-biological substrate.
Orch ORNoConsciousness is fundamentally non-computational and relies on specific biological quantum processes (Orch OR in microtubules); digital simulation cannot replicate true sentience.
Recurrent Processing TheoryNoConsciousness is tied to physical brain activity and specific neural circuitry (recurrent processing states), suggesting cessation upon bodily death.
Orch ORPossibleAs a non-local quantum process in spacetime geometry, consciousness provides a potentially plausible mechanism for phenomena like near-death experiences, the afterlife, and reincarnation.
Recurrent Processing TheoryYesSince consciousness is the recurrent processing state itself, a perfect duplication of that process onto a new medium (upload) would generate the first-person self, enabling virtual immortality.
Orch ORConditionalMind uploading requires recreating consciousness in an artificial medium (e.g., carbon nanotubes) that possesses the necessary quantum physical properties to sustain and orchestrate objective reduction events.
Recurrent Processing TheoryHumanistic onlyThe theory focuses on a purely physicalist, neurobiological explanation of phenomenal experience and does not support any ultimate cosmic meaning or purpose.
Orch ORCosmic/UltimateProto-conscious moments are fundamental and ubiquitous, linking consciousness to the fine-scale structure of reality, suggesting inherent cosmic relevance and possibly enabling evolution itself.
Nature of mind
Ontology
Recurrent Processing TheoryPhysicalism
Orch ORQuantum Theory (Non-computational Physicalism / Proto-panpsychism)
Mind and body
Recurrent Processing TheoryIdentity/Reductionist approach, arguing that the notion of mind must move toward that of the brain, and consciousness is identical to a recurrent processing state in physical circuitry.
Orch ORConsciousness is non-computational physics. The brain's microtubules act as a mechanism to orchestrate proto-conscious quantum activity into coherent, rich conscious experiences, requiring a physics beyond current understanding.
Fundamental or emergent
Recurrent Processing TheoryEmergent
Orch OREmergent/Primitive (Hybrid)
Qualia
Recurrent Processing TheoryQualia are generated when a certain recurrent processing state holds of the relevant visual circuitry, making the visual state conscious.
Orch ORRich conscious experience (qualia) arises when orchestrated objective reduction occurs in neuronal microtubules, connecting the quantum information processing to the fundamental structure of spacetime geometry.
How it works
Mechanism
Recurrent Processing TheoryRecurrent processing (feedback connections) in sensory and post-sensory areas (Stage 3) is considered sufficient for consciousness.
Orch OROrchestrated Objective Reduction (Orch OR), where non-computational, instantaneous quantum state collapse is leveraged by coherent quantum activity sustained within microtubule lattices.
Where it is
Recurrent Processing TheoryLocalized in sensory and post-sensory areas, specifically recurrent activations in the 'back of the head'.
Orch ORLocalized within neuronal microtubules, particularly in the brain, but fundamentally drawing upon ubiquitous proto-conscious properties throughout the universe.
What it does
Recurrent Processing TheoryConsciousness is the specific recurrent processing state itself. The underlying purpose is implied to move the understanding of mind toward the brain.
Orch ORConsciousness provides real-time conscious causal action through non-computable objective reduction events, potentially linked to the fundamental mechanisms of free will and choice.
Evidence and criticism
Testability
Recurrent Processing TheoryEmpirically testable
Orch ORTheoretically testable; versions involving collapse dynamics can, in principle, be tested with quantum computers, though current tests are rudimentary.
Tests so far
Recurrent Processing TheoryNot stated
Orch ORStudies showing that general anesthetics, psychedelics, and antidepressants interact with microtubules.,Experiments aimed at testing quantum coherence maintenance in biological systems (e.g., tubulin studies).,Testing theoretical versions by combining IIT and collapse dynamics.
Criticisms
Recurrent Processing TheoryCritiques Global Workspace Theory (GWT) as being 'all about access but not about seeing'. Is itself criticized by Ned Block as a 'truncated form of the global workspace account'.
Orch ORThe main tension is the challenge of maintaining quantum coherence for biological timescales in the hot, wet environment of the brain (environmental decoherence). The theory also requires non-existent physics (quantum gravity).
Sources
Key sources
Recurrent Processing Theory
- Towards a true neural stance on consciousness, Victor Lamme (2006)
- How neuroscience will change our view on consciousness, Victor Lamme (2010)
- Wu, 2018 (Discussing Lamme's RPT) (2018)
Orch OR
- Shadows of the Mind: A Search for the Missing Science of Consciousness, Roger Penrose (1996)
- Conscious., Microtub. ‘Orch OR’, Stuart Hameroff (2014)
- Consciousness & new physics, Roger Penrose (2023)
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